Book bans, school vouchers and DEI: Guilford County School Board D5 candidates answer questions at candidate forum

Featured photo: Republican District 3 Guilford County School Board incumbent Michael Logan speaks during a candidate forum on Sept. 17 in Greensboro. (photo by Sayaka Matsuoka)

In a slightly contentious candidate forum on Tuesday, candidates for Guilford County School Board in Districts 3 and 5 met at the First Presbyterian Mullin Life Center in Greensboro to discuss their platforms. Hosted by members of the League of Women Voters, three candidates running for District 3 — Republican incumbent Michael Logan, unaffiliated candidate Bill Goebel and Democrat David Coates — spoke in front of a crowd of about 40 voters.

After the District 3 forum, candidates for District 5 including Democrat Deborah Napper and Republican Cara Townsend Dohner, took to the mics. That article will be published soon.

According to the League of Women Voters organizers, the candidates for District 7 were not invited to the forum due to time constraints.

During the opening comments for the District 3 race, Logan attacked Goebel, who sat to his right and had just asked to shake his hand. In response, the incumbent told the audience that he would not shake his hand, and that Goebel “is a very despicable person.” The comment elicited gasps and shakes of heads from the audience.

The background

The historical context of the one remark stems from the contentious relationship between the two candidates. When former school board member Pat Tillman, a Republican, left the Board of Education to become a county commissioner in 2022, the Guilford County Republican party picked Logan, an educator who has worked within Guilford County Schools for more than 25 years as his replacement. However, the school board’s Democratic members — which make up a majority of the board — opposed their pick, pointing out past comments and social media posts made by Logan that were “racially prejudiced.”

In an effort to seat Logan, local Republican legislators — including Rep. Jon Hardister, who sponsored the bill — passed a bill that aimed to clarify the process of filling vacant seats. But in April of last year, the school board once again thwarted local Republican efforts by using a loophole in the newly passed bill to seat Goebel, a Republican at the time. During the school board meeting, Logan was escorted out by sheriff’s deputies, as reported by the News & Record.

Shortly afterwards, the state legislature stepped in again, passing a law that allowed Logan to finally take the seat a year ago. 

Earlier this year, Goebel gathered the necessary number of signatures to appear on the ballot this November as an unaffiliated candidate.

The forum on Tuesday, which lasted about 45 minutes for each race, allowed the candidates to speak for up to two minutes and answer questions that were drafted by the League of Women Voters and also from the audience.

Michael Logan – Republican, incumbent

Background: Logan, a lifelong resident of Guilford County whose children graduated from schools in the district, formerly worked as a career and technical high school teacher for 26 years. 

His recent involvement in Guilford County Schools: Logan has served as the District 3 representative since September 2023.

On the expansion of the school voucher program: Logan, who said that in 2018 he was “pretty against charter schools,” said during his comments that the expansion of the voucher program gives parents choice outside of public schools.

Pointing to issues seen during the pandemic, Logan said that “we lose funding with public schools when students do not attend public schools.”

Logan also stated that “not once in the last 10 years has funding been decreased per pupil.”

• Fact check: This is technically true. According to state data, NC’s per-pupil funding level was $12,636 for the 2022-23 school year. That was up from about $12,345 the previous year and from $10,753 before that. However, the state has consistently ranked in the bottom five states in the nation for per-pupil spending.

Logan also noted students have left public schools in the county over the last few years.

• Fact check: Logan is correct. In 2011, Guilford County Schools had about 72,000 students enrolled, up about 4,000 students compared to 2006; during the 2023-24 school year, that number had dropped to about 69,000 students. According to reporting by WUNC, the drop in numbers is not unique to Guilford County. “Back in 2013, about 85 percent of North Carolina students attended their local K-12 public school,” the site reported. “Last school year, that percentage fell to fewer than 77 percent, because more students have moved to other methods of schooling.”

Logan also advocated for teacher pay increases by step level, which pays teachers based on years of experience.

In a later response, Logan said that there are no failing charter schools but there are failing public schools.

• Fact check: While this may technically be true, it is also the case that charter schools are not held to the same standards as public schools. Because they do not operate within the county’s school district, each school is allowed to adhere to its own standards and codes of conduct. 

On whether or not he is in favor of the ¼ cent sales tax increase that is on the ballot:  In June, the county commissioners voted in favor of a ¼ cent sales tax increase that will be on the ballot this fall. If passed by voters, the sales tax would be used for teacher and employee pay. Logan stated that he is supportive of the sales tax increase but that he’s also “a realist and understands that with the change in commissioner, it can be removed from the teacher salaries.”

There are three competitive Guilford County Commission races this call in Districts 4, 5 and 6.

His plans to reduce the achievement gap for Black students: Rather than evoking equity, like his opponent Coates, Logan pointed to equality instead.

“Equality means all students get the same funding, get the same resources,” he said. 

On the role of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in schools: Logan, like many right-wing conservatives running for office, pushed back against the importance of DEI in schools. Instead, he said that “teachers [are] supposed to teach a subject that they are trained to teach.” He said that by focusing on the subject matter, they don’t have to focus on diversity, equity and inclusion. 

How to address student anxiety: Logan placed the blame for student anxiety on schools closing during the pandemic.

“We knew what was going to happen within the classrooms because the students had not been able to socialize with each other,” he said. “So the reality is, we’re facing a situation or problem that we created ourselves.”

To alleviate the issue, Logan said he would push for students to be involved in more school activities and sports.

On who should make decisions about school books: “We haven’t banned any books,” Logan said in response to a question about who should get to decide which books stay in schools. Logan also noted that parents should be the ones to decide childrens’ reading materials.

• Fact check: In the last two years, challenges to books in schools and public libraries across the country have surged 65 percent according to the American Library Association. In Guilford County, two books were challenged during the 2021-22 school year. It marked the first time in several years since a book was challenged in the district. Both books were kept within the schools after an appeals process.

How he would work with people who have differing opinions from him: Logan said that despite Democrats “dragging him through the mud,” he’s been able to work with the Democratic members of the school board.

David Coates – Democrat

Background: A lawyer who served on a school board in New Jersey for more than 40 years.

His recent involvement in Guilford County Schools: While Coates said that he hasn’t been involved in the school board locally, he mentioned that he has served as a school board attorney in the past. 

“I bring a level of expertise in that many of the issues that are faced here in Guilford County are faced in different jurisdictions,” Coates said. 

On the expansion of the school voucher program: Coates called the school voucher program “disgraceful” and a “diversion.”

“The General Assembly has a responsibility statutorily to paying salaries for personnel,” he said. “They fund over 50 percent of the budget, but they haven’t kept pace.”

• Fact check: A quick look at the 2024-25 operating budget for Guilford County Schools shows that 55 percent of the funding comes from the state. The budget also notes how teacher supplements for Guilford County lag behind other counties such as Mecklengburg and Wake, but also smaller counties like Durham and Forsyth.

Coates also noted how the lack of funding is causing teachers to leave the county. “We end up in a situation where over 18 percent of the teachers who taught last year in Guilford County aren’t back this year…money is a big part of that.”

• Fact check: A look at the school’s budget shows that Guilford County has an 18.3 percent teacher attrition rate, the second highest in the state behind Durham County at 21.1 percent.

In a later response, Coates said that parents should be allowed to send their kids to “whatever school…they feel is appropriate.” But what shouldn’t be happening, he said, is “public money being used to support private schools.”

On whether or not he is in favor of the ¼ cent sales tax increase that is on the ballot: Coates, like his opponents, noted that he is in favor of the tax.

His plans to reduce the achievement gap for Black students: In his response, Coates acknowledged the role that historical racism and intergenerational poverty have played on Black students. 

“Too many of our Black children are starting school standing in a hole,” Coates said. “Equity means that you do what you have to do to get everybody on the same level.”

For Coates that means spending more money on teachers, preschool education and looking into “private efforts.”

On the role of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in schools: Coates acknowledged the diversity that exists within Guilford County Schools and said that the school district needs to provide more programs, including advanced placement courses, for the diverse population.

“It’s very hard to do that if you don’t have the money,” he said.

How to address student anxiety: If elected, Coates said that he would push for more counselors in schools and also more interactions with community-based mental health services. He also noted the disproportionate mental health challenges that LGBTQ+ students face compared to their peers.

• Fact check: Annual surveys by the Trevor Project show that LGBTQ+ youth face greater challenges with mental health compared to cisgender students. In their 2022 survey, 45 percent of LGBTQ+ youth said they seriously considered suicide in the past year compared to 33 percent of cisgender youth. The survey also found that LGBTQ+ youth who found their school to be LGBTQ-affirming reported lower rates of attempting suicide.

On who should make decisions about school books: “School librarians in consultation with teachers,” Coates said. He stated that school materials should be age appropriate but that notion shouldn’t be “a way of masking censorship.”

How he would work with people who have differing opinions from him: “We’re all in this together,” Coates said. “Republicans, Democrats, conservatives, liberals, MAGA,” he said. “You deal with people one on one…I assume the best in people.”

Bill Goebel – Unaffiliated

Background: Goebel has been heavily involved in Boy Scout troops for more than 40 years and is active in the Westover Church in Greensboro. He has served as a Sunday school teacher. He also noted his 25 years as a businessman, 17 years as an educator and 18 years as a church group leader. He said he has been endorsed by the Simkins PAC, the Guilford County Association of Educators and Red, Wine and Blue NC.

His recent involvement in Guilford County Schools: Goebel mentioned his brief involvement with the school board that lasted about five months and that he still attends school board meetings.

On the expansion of the school voucher program: Goebel, like Coates, said he opposes the expansion of the vouchers, which recently lifted the income cap.

“Seventy percent of that money’s going to two counties — Mecklenburg and Wake — so it’s not going out to the rural counties,” he said. Later in his response, Goebel stated in plain terms: “If they can find the money for vouchers, they can find money to support our schools.”

• Fact check: According to reporting by Education NC, the two counties with the most private schools in the state are Mecklenbug and Wake County. In the article, Gov. Roy Cooper, who opposed the expansion, states that the program “overwhelmingly benefit[s] the wealthiest demographic in the state.”

In a later response, Goebel said that he is in favor of more choice for parents.

“Every parent should have the right to educate their child in the manner they feel is appropriate,” he said.

On whether or not he is in favor of the ¼ cent sales tax increase that is on the ballot: Goebel also stated that he was in favor of the tax increase. In addition to that, Goebel said that he would push to build a larger endowment for public schools if elected. 

His plans to reduce the achievement gap for Black students: As a reference point, Goebel pointed to an existing gap for Black scouts that he had seen during his time working with Boy Scouts. To alleviate the issue, he said that they implemented a high-intensity tutoring program in which scouts were partnered with a mentor; that increased scouts of color by 20 percent, he said. “We can do the same thing here.”

On the role of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in schools: Goebel noted how he was still learning about diversity, equity and inclusion through having conversations with people different from him. 

“We may have differences of opinion, but we can talk them through and find some common ground,” he said.

How to address student anxiety: While Goebel acknowledged the issue of student anxiety, he also posed the issue of anxiety amongst teachers.

“Our teachers are starting to have problems because they’re dealing with all these anxious kids,” he said. 

In order to alleviate the problem, Goebel said that he would push for more of the school board’s budget to be allocated towards mental health services.

On who should make decisions about school books: Goebel pointed to the current process that is in place that allows for parents to bring concerns to the school’s principal and then eventually the school’s committee. If the parent is still not satisfied with the decision, they can appeal to a district-wide committee and then to the school board.

How he would work with people who have differing opinions from him: Goebel pointed to a podcast episode on the show Common Ground, in which he had a conversation with a man with a different background. 

“Our common ground is found in our ability to work on our faith-based beliefs, our community beliefs, our wanting to be a servant in the community,” he said.